Hot on the Titties: Crying It Out
by Cookie
Hot on the Titties Friday! Who is ready for a healthy debate? I’m beginning to observe that the topics that really get people talking are the ones that hit closest to home. Often, they involve us feeling as though we need to defend our choices to others, and it can get quite passionate. And as always, as parents, we feel the need to justify whatever choice we end up making to parent our children.
So, here is the kindling to today’s fire. It’s sort of a lengthy article, and is written by someone with a PhD, presumably in some sort of neuroscience or child behaviour. Basically, it spends most of it’s time explaining why letting a baby “cry it out” is the evil of all evils.
It is a scientific, anthropological argument for attachment parenting. Which we all know is a bit of a hot topic at times. As usual, it explains that “giving babies what they need leads to greater independence later.” Hmmmm. No shit.
One interesting comment made was how the extended family unit and “village” so to speak was all involved in a child’s care and instrumental to promoting this happiness and independence in a child. And I can totally see how the break down of these family units where the mother is doing it all by herself can be detrimental to a child’s behaviour later on. Being a parent is really, really, tiring some days.
Anyway, the real meat of the debate today is whether or not you let your child “cry it out” sometimes. Or all the times. Or none of the times.
If you do, you probably won’t read the entire article because it will make you feel like shit. There’s a lot of talk of neurons and psychological damage to the child that can’t be reversed and how neglectful it is. How selfish it is to ignore a child’s needs based on your own and that the more you do it the more desensitized you get to the sounds. It was a total bashing. And even though the article had a scientific “smell” to it, it was fairly obvious to me how un-objective this scientist was when writing it.
“letting babies get distressed is a practice that can damage children and their relational capacities in many ways for the long term.”
I’m not sure there are many parents who let their babies get distressed. Nobody wants to allow their baby to cry, or feel hurt or not try their best to comfort them. This is not a scientific statement. It is an inflammatory one.
“The fact is that caregivers who habitually respond to the needs of the baby before the baby gets distressed, preventing crying, are more likely to have children who are independent than the opposite (e.g., Stein & Newcomb, 1994). Soothing care is best from the outset. Once patterns get established, it’s much harder to change them.”
This statements makes the assumption that Attachment Parents respond to their babies needs and parents who do not attachment parent do not.
I can’t disagree more.
Because I’m fairly certain that babies who are fed on demand and co-sleep or are rocked to sleep or whatever cry sometimes too. In my experience and observation they fucking cry just as often. That’s how they let you know what they need.
As someone who did not “feed on demand” and allowed their baby to “cry it out” on occasion, I find the above statement completely fucking ridiculous. I got my kid on a schedule as soon as possible. And it wasn’t just about me. It was about watching her and anticipating her needs and creating a pattern where her needs were met before she needed to get upset about shit. And you know what? Sometimes she cried. And then I figured out what she needed. And as she grew and her needs changed, I shifted things around according to what she needed. Fucking Duh. Putting a baby on a “schedule” doesn’t mean you don’t adapt to the needs of your child.
As for the crying it out, yeah, we did that too from time to time. It’s not like we got sick of hanging out with her so we put her to bed to cry herself to sleep every night. There was feeding, and changing, and cuddling and rocking and singing and all the nurturing things you do for your child. And then we put her in her crib, once we knew she was comfortable and all her needs were met. And sometimes, there was some fussing. Most of the time she went to sleep. But on the nights she didn’t, we let her cry for a few minutes. And it was fine.
So. Is my now toddler damaged from this? Is she dependent and clingy and whiny as the article suggests she would be? Is she full of anxiety and stupidity and lacking confidence? She couldn’t be the farthest thing from any of this. Honestly.
So what I think is this. There is a great difference between methods in determining and meeting your child’s needs and child neglect. I believe that the negative outcomes described in this bullshit propaganda psychology article is blurring the lines between parental choices and parental neglect. I’m sure that all of these developmental and psychological outcomes are possible, but in the extreme form of non-parenting. I ALSO think, that if you are going to publish in a scientific magazine or journal, you should be careful to write in a scientific manner, and not an obviously biased, inflammatory, and accusatory manner.
Over to you kids.
Thoughts?
Letting a kid cry when his diaper is full or he’s hungry is douchebaggery, but really only a parent knows when a kid is crying because he’s just being an asshole. Letting the kid cry it out when he’s just doing that is fine. Psychology is to science what a donut is to a nutritious meal. And I say that as a person with a degree in psychology.
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Thank you for your expert opinion. And yes, a crying child is usually an indication that someone has shit his pants or something, but when they just want their way…..too bad, right?
As a side question, how come now The Destroyer doesn’t want the shit out of her pants anymore? I’ll ask her ” Destroyer, did you shit your pants?” when she clearly has, and she always says “No!” and runs to the other side of the room. Is keeping shit in your pants a cool toddler thing to do?
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Lol. Who knows? G$ does that too sometimes, but it seems mostly when he has a little rash or something and I think the wipes sting his nut sack. Or maybe they just relate a changing to naptime and that’s why they hate it.
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Yeah. Naptime. We don’t do that anymore around here. Someone has ditched her 2 hour afternoon nap just in time for me to have another baby. I will never rest again.
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Ace stopped at 3, but Cool will still take one without much fuss. They’re all different, that’s for sure. Your life is going to fucking blow here pretty soon. I’m looking forward to reading about it.
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Yeah, its cool at our house to run around in a shitty diaper, or now, shitty panties/training pants. Also cool to pee on the floor two second after Mommy or Daddy asks if she needs to pee and she screams NO!
BUT she tells the daycare worker that she has to go pee/poop. Just not Mommy/Daddy/Grandparent. Sigh.
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Destroyer peed on our bed yesterday after her bath. I give up.
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Monkey does this exact thing with his shitty nappies too! Glad its not just us. But seriously, this is a kid who screamed bloody murder about a wet nappy every single time for the first 16 months of his life. Now he would happily go the entire day with a soggy bag of poop strapped to his butt, if it meant he didn’t have to stop chasing the dogs with sock-nunchucks for two minutes.WordPress has eaten my comment about 10 times already so I hope this one works!
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At least i won’t be whining about being pregnant anymore.
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We did the whine-it-out system for bedtime. Because as a baby, our Hurricane had three moods: happy, whiny, and I need something now. Most of the time was happy – happy to play with Mommy or Daddy, happy to play on her blanket, happy to explore the floor, happy to shit/piss diaper and continue on. Whiny – toy just beyond reach, bored playing in crib alone. I need something now – food, scared and alone.
She was born independent and curious. No amount of cry-it-out or not-cry-it-out was going to change that. The kid could lift her head and peer around the day she was born. She was pulling herself off her playmat at 5 months and dragging herself around the house (military crawl). At 2 she now gets angry whenever Mommy or Daddy tries to help her do things she figures she has mastered already (socks and handwashing, mostly).
So, our rule at home was this: playful noises or whiny noises from crib, ignore. She’ll eventually put herself to sleep or get what she wants on her own. Frantic crying: check on her. This is what worked for us and her. I don’t have any other child to compare her to. Daycare tells me she is one of the most brilliant kids she’s ever had, well beyond her age level for comprehension, and is a happy content child whenever the terrible two attitude doesn’t come to play. She’s happy to play with the other kids or alone. She gives herself time outs when she is losing control of her emotion and tells us when she is done.
I’d say, so far, we’ve done a helluva job raising an independent daughter with the whine it out method. and this is likely how my mother raised me.
On days she spent at my in-laws, she was never allowed to cry. Our daycare would notice negative changes in her behaviour after days spent there – more needy, more demanding, more insisting on her way or for help to do things she could easily do on her own already. So what does that say about how my daughter would be if we would have scooped her up at every little whine?
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Also, I should note, that I’m probably a little on the granola side of things: cloth diapers, baby-led weaning, weary of chemicals being put on my baby (and somewhat, us).
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Well, I’m no doctor or scientist but I do have a background in social work. IMO Scheduling and providing a (positive) predictable environment full of love is what helps a child feel secure. I don’t believe a child before the age of one is capable of manipulation, we would allow our boys to wimper or fuss but if they really started crying, we would go to them, there was obviously some need that needed to be met. Since then, which may I say have been very few times because our boys thrived in our structured environment we have let them CIO for a period of time after determing all their needs were met. There is a balance between helicoptering your kids and ignoring their needs, it is called being a good parent who allows their children to test the boundaries of their world, yet keeps enough of a “leash” on them that they know that there are limits and expectations!
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I just think that we over think everything! Everything fe*ks up your children. I accepted long ago that no matter how much I would ever break my back for my kids, they would turn out like me and disregard and even dislike their mom, until they too were mothers. Then they would beat my door down for advice and help.
As for leaving them cry or not. My third never stopped for 12 months. She was permanently attached to my hip. When we drove in the car if we were idle at lights or whatever she screamed. In fact that is all she did as well as staying awake morning, noon and night. You would think I would have sussed everything by my third! Any way she seems pretty normal to me now. And by the way my fourth never stopped smiling. Same mother, same family.
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Totally. We could all drive ourselves and eachother crazytrying to find the “best” way”. there is no such thing. Only the best way for your family.
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I think this is probably the most sensible thing I have read in the debate. Pseudo-scientific papers that end up getting you down are probably written by people without kids anyway!
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Oh, when we did try CIO after our boys were 1yr, we discovered they have stamina, they wouldn’t cry themselves to sleep, they would just cry more and longer! They did better with a quick snuggle and maybe a little milk.
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We had to be careful about timing too, because Destroyer is a puker. If she got really upset, she’d puke all over herself and her crib. Obviously, if the crying got intense we’d go in and check or get her up for a bit.
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Oh. My. God. I’m about to lose my shit. You may or may not have read this: http://shansshenanigans.com/2013/03/15/how-to-sleep-train-your-dragons/
I wrote it in June. I’m already a fucking zombie. If I didn’t have cry-it-out I’d be dead. And so would everyone else who depends on me for life.
Also, I was a monster baby that NEVER slept. My parents refused to let me cry it out. This resulted in extreme clinginess and the need for one or both of my parents to sit with me until I fell asleep every single night until I was 12 FUCKING YEARS OLD. Yeah. Horribly embarrassing for me to admit, and I’m willing to bed a major contributor to my parents ending up divorced. When the crap did they ever have time for each other!? And I suffered from extreme anxiety all through my teenaged years despite it all, so suck on that, Attachment Parenting Nazis! I’m not knocking attachment parenting, but get off my case.
When I defended my thesis I got nailed for the parts that were somewhat biased. It’s hard to keep opinion out, but I had to edit the shit out of it. Stuff like that just shouldn’t be published.
THE END
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Also, no, it is June. I wrote it in March. I left my house to go to work yesterday in my slippers. My penguin socks were showing. So professional. I need more sleep.
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we do what we gotta do, right? And if you’re not taking care of yourself, how will you take care of anybody else?
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1. Psychologists are funny.
2. Who’s watching their kids while their judging ours?
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haha! Touche!
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[…] Canadian lady who has the same gestational period as an elephant, does a rant every Friday about something that makes her titties hot or something like […]
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I read an article like this a year or so ago just after my son was born. Not sure if it was this one and I refuse to click the link and find out as it sounds rather similar. The thing that really pissed me off about it is that:
1. They didn’t define what crying it out was. So yeah, if you leave your kid to cry for an extended period of time that is crying it out but how long? What if they cry for two mins while you try to go to the toilet etc And what if they are crying while you are in the room trying to get them to sleep. You are trying to comfort and put them to sleep without the rocking or patting and they just cry cry cry as they sometime do. Aren’t they releasing cortisol then too? Are they actually suggesting that you shouldn’t let your baby cry EVER?
2. They don’t ever provide you with a viable alternative. What if you have a toddler and a newborn? Sometimes your toddler will need her bum wiped and baby will just have to cry. So are you supposed to feel guilty then and like you are setting your baby up for a lifetime of being fucked in the head all because you had to wipe your 2 year old’s bum? They are never clear about what you should do instead in situations where your baby might be crying (like trying to teach them to sleep). Like parenting wasn’t already guilt ridden enough.
I have a friend who refuses to let her baby cry. She is now 19 months old and sleeps in her parents bed every night because they can’t get her to go in her own without crying. She still wakes often during the night so mum and dad do not get a full nights sleep either. Great. So no one is getting any sleep in that house. How healthy for all of them. Cry it out (and I’m talking about even gentle forms of allowing crying – not being ignored for 2 hours) is often used as part of teaching a child to sleep. It is out responsibility as parents to teach our children how to get a good night’s sleep just as it is our responsibility to make sure they learn to clean their teeth and eat their vegetables. Not teaching a child how to sleep can actually be harmful too but no-one is talking about THAT.
Thanks for the post and sorry for the RANT!! haha
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