Hot On The Titties: Measles Edition
by Cookie
Ahh.
The measles. One of my favourite topics. My thang.
The topic that makes me want to beat people who don’t vaccinate my head against a wall.
And WARNING: This is a HOTTF rant. Nothing scientific lies here. I will not be convincing anyone to vaccinate based on facts or figures. I’m just fucking ANGRY.
I know. I know we’ve been around this block many times. But people are obviously not getting the message. Measles outbreaks are everywhere. And now, there’s even been an outbreak here. In Manitoba. In a climate so cold you’d think after our “coldest winter since the dawn of time” that we could freeze the balls off of the measles.
Sadly no. It found us here too.
And it makes me angry. It makes me afraid. I have small children. One is an infant whose immune system is not mature enough to handle all of his vaccinations yet. And the poor decisions of people in this First World Fucking Country are putting MY child at risk.
I bet you are the same parents who insist that I can’t bring peanut butter sandwiches to playgroup.
But that’s ok. You keep serving up your measles-whooping cough cocktail and we’ll keep drinking it. Because you know, it stays live in the air we’re breathing for two fucking hours after you’ve left.
And I’m sorry to be so fucking obtuse, because obviously the risk of your child going into anaphylactic shock is more horrifying than the risk of my child suffering encephalopathy of their brain, or death. And I’m sure I’m gonna hear about how ignorant I am about child allergies and they’re so severe and how could I be so stupid.
Well guess what? That’s what I feel like when people don’t take the risk of my child getting ill (which is bad enough) or dying or being permanently disabled seriously. Because you think you know better.
Can’t wait for smallpox to make it’s return either. That should be a gooder. All in the name of not putting anything foreign into our bodies.
Guess how many foreign substances you’ll be putting into your child’s body if your child suffers complications from the measles? Or you know, needs a ventilator because the tetanus they received from that cut in the backyard has paralyzed their breathing muscles?
Not everything in the world is a giant conspiracy theory. I am so sick of hearing how vaccines don’t work and look up this article on the CDC and take this out of context and Jenny McCarthy and whatever. It’s bullshit.
Vaccines work. Your theories don’t. So go fuck yourself.
How’s that for a closing argument?
Ok.
I feel a little better. Your turn.
ihaveanopinionidliketoshare 
Ohhhh how I love your rants! Yes, my child has a peanut allergy but I don’t look to others to protect him(unless he is in their care), it is my job to be educated and to educate him and those that care for him. It is my job to protect him but if people are doing or not doing things that are putting MY child(ren) at risk, then damn right I am going to be pissed and I do get pissed about people who can immunize but don’t!
LikeLike
Ignorance will be our demise as humans!
LikeLike
Argh drives me fucking crazy too. We live in quite a hippie region and vaccine uptake here is the lowest IN THE COUNTRY. Really freaks me out. When I have a newborn I’m going into fucking hibernation for awhile. Whooping cough is so prevalent in our area that one of my mother’s group friends told everyone in a text that they couldn’t visit her new baby unless the adults were up to date and the kids had been vaccinated. Some people laughed but I say good on her!
LikeLike
good for her indeed. As of next year i am going to start insisting that my students are all vaccinated as well, or I won’t teach them in my home studio.
LikeLike
Rave on, mama!! When I see pics like the one you posted I want to beat the brains out of non-vaccinators who subjected that poor little body to such pain and discomfort for no goddamn reason.
Sorry.
LikeLike
Nothing to be sorry for. Your feelings are supported here!
LikeLike
i don’t understand the fad of not using vaccines.. like really.. 20-25-30 years ago we were all vaccinated.. did it kill any of us.. NO.. people need to grow an effing brain seriously… rant on because even though I don’t have kids yet, im ranting with you!!! 😀
LikeLike
Rant on, Sister!
LikeLike
Was it Jenny McCarthy? I thought it was Tori Spelling. Anyhow, I totally f-ing agree. Vax your child. Most of these moms who pop off about vaccines this and that visit these horror sites that scared the crap out of them (which is the exact way to turn me away from it) and claim they have knowledge on the subject. I know of one mom whose daughter had a reaction to one of her 12 month vaccines. Sent her to the e.r. with seizures. I loved that she didn’t blame the vaccine at all…she just said that it could happen to any child. As far as I know she is still vaccinating and didn’t spout a bunch of bull about the dangers of vaccines. Oh, and I am the mother of a peanut/nut allergic child and your kids can have pb&j’s all day. If the need arises, we have the epi-pen, benadryl and 9-1-1. If anything, I am totally jealous.
LikeLike
Thank you ma’am. And I honestly am not trivializing allergies. They are serious and complicated and need our attention. I just feel that we take such precautions to make sure that we accommodate allergy needs, but we don’t require parents to keep all the other children safe through vaccines. It makes my mind spin.
LikeLike
I’m 100% with you on this one. I make sure that my 4 kids are up to date on their vaccines. And going along the allergy route I get that too. I believe that it’s the parent and caregivers job to educate and watch said child. My 2 yo daughter has a severe allergy to red food dye and I don’t expect every parent to stop buying m&ms or certain juices or whatnot. It’s my job to make sure that she doesn’t get into it or to keep her epipen with us.
LikeLike
We all have a responsibility to make all children safe! 🙂
LikeLike
I know of two parents who are crippled as a result of contracting polio as children, yet refused to vaccinate their own child against it. WTF?? It boggles my mind how people would rather risk their children getting deathly ill than to vaccinate them, because like you said, people like Jenny McCarthy (a huge name in the medical world btw….NOT) suggests otherwise. And as a result, our own young children are compromised due to this bs. It’s exactly like your pb allergy comparison, don’t you dare bring any nuts to a public place, but I’ll bring my unvaccinated germ spreading child along and to hell who he infects.
LikeLike
Right? It’s the same thing essentially. Except I’m pretty sure EVERYBODY is a “allergic” to the measles, compared to about 1% of people being allergic to nuts.
If we can be so strict to protect the 1%, why not the masses?
LikeLike
You know vaccines don’t protect 100%… I had ALL my vaccines, and i STILL got Measeles at the age of 20… And I definitely did not die.
LikeLike
Nothing is 100%. Are you implying that because vaccines only protect 99% ( or something in that range) they are ineffective? Birth control is only 97-99% effective, but we still seem to believe in using THAT.
However, vaccination is our best bet against these diseases. Any idea how many people died of small pox before vaccines eradicated it?
Also, my child is too young to make that choice. And the chances of complications arising from the measles are most common in children under 5.
So, Pet, I love you and am glad you are still alive. But your anectdotal response doesn’t make me want my child to suffer with a completely preventable disease…just because death only a remote possibility.
LikeLike
I do respect your opinion as I believe that is what blogs are for. However you are always up for debates whenever you allow comments.
For the record, I don’t agree with birth control either. It messes with your normal hormones and it may or may not cause issues once someone stops using it. It is a chance. For myself, I don’t like chancing my health that way. I also eat home cooked meals from scratch and haven’t eaten fast food in 1.5 years though.
The problem that I see with vaccines is not if they work or not (nothing in life works 100%, let’s be honest), but in the fact that most the diseases are not as bad as everybody is making them out to be. Even on the CDC website itself, it says that only 3% of those who get measles die from it. I truly believe that if we treat our bodies right (exercise, eat organic, whole foods, staying away from medications unless actually needed), then our immune systems are made to fight off these diseases. The problem is that most people do not choose that lifestyle anymore, and our population are getting sicker and sicker.
The other thing to consider is hygiene. Around the time vaccinations started being used, proper hand hygiene and hand washing were being taught as well. That is proven to help with eliminating bacteria and microorganisms.
As far as herd immunity goes for keeping those unable to vaccinate healthy, it is not exactly an argument to use. I say that because even a vaccinated person can carry a virus. (Government websites even say that!). Also there is about the same amount of children who are immunocompromised as there are that get extremely Ill from the vaccines. So in the end, no matter what we choose, we are always taking a chance for somebody.
I do not try and tell people they should or should not vaccinate, but rather that I believe it really should be a choice. I truly believe that every parent (or at least they should) makes their choice based on what they believe is best. No loving parent would purposely hurt their children.
It comes down to choosing which sources you trust. There are valid points from both sides of the argument.
I may not change anybody’s mind, but I really do believe that is IS a person’s choice. It is going directly into our bodies, therefore considered an invasive procedure. So we need to have informed consent.
LikeLike
you probably didn’t get super sick because you were vaccinated… although maybe not 100% effective against preventing the disease, it certainly makes it not so severe…
LikeLike
Did you ever think that even though you got the shot and still contracted it that maybe the shot helped protect you against how severe your symptoms were? .. hence why it wasn’t a huge deal for you!
LikeLike
If you hadn’t been had the vaccine you may have died. The vaccine doesn’t make us completely ammune…..so we won’t get it at all…..it allows our bodies to build ammunity so when we come in contact, we can fight it off much faster then if we didn’t. With no ammunity at all, a lot of these diseases are deadly. That’s what these parents that don’t vaccinate don’t understand….”why are you so concerned….you vaccinated your kid so he will be fine…. “That’s not always true, we all vaccinate to keep these diseases at bay and now their is flippen crazy people not doing it and therefore these diseases are poking their nasty heads again! I am a nurse, and when I treat these poor children I believe the parents should be charged with child abuse! It’s disgusting!
LikeLike
Glad it’s my turn. I obviously am not going to get you to agree with me, and just for the record none of us listen to Jenny Mccarthy, or think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. We’be just done our research. Many, many years and hours of research. No vaccines don’t work. And I have never resorted to name calling before, but you sound like a brainwashed idiot. To just blindly allow toxins to be put in your child’s body is mind boggling to me. My mom and dad both had measles as kids, so did a bunch of others in my family. Guess what? They’re fine! Eat organic non processed food and stop feeding your kids shit, and maybe they’ll have a better immune system. I remember my parents having get together to purposely expose me to kids that had chicken pox and things like that, so I would get it naturally and build an immunity. (Don’t need shots or boosters that way) Now I’m immune for life. Media is just scaring you people. And your playing right into it. By the way, herd immunity is a myth. The meaning has been distorted. Also my responsibility is to MY family only. Not the herd!
LikeLike
Sigh. I was honestly wondering when this type of response was going to start occurring.
I suppose that if our only responsibility is to our own families, then I will certainly feed my child whatever I want and send whatever food I want to school with them, regardless of the danger it poses to other children via allergies.
I mean, how dare you tell me what I can and can’t put into my child’s body?
And you’re right. Not everyone who gets the measles is going to die. Or suffer permanent damage. But that’s not really my point. My point is that its possible.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about me. And I suppose that’s fine.
I don’t blindly do ANYTHING with regards to my children. I believe that the body has an amazing ability to heal itself. I feed my children healthy, whole foods. They play outside. We have pets. I don’t freak out and take them to the doctor every time they have a sniffle. My children have always been healthy.
You may assume I am an idiot all you like, but you know nothing about my background, education or experience in this area. I can only assume that you must have a highly specialized degree in immunology?
I wonder about all the people who died of various epidemics before processed foods were available? I wonder if they would believe your theory about healthy eating preventing all diseases?
What’s that saying about an ounce of prevention?
Anyway. I am fully aware that my opinion is falling on deaf ears. This is MY blog, and you are welcome to read it or not. You are welcome to present your opinion as I have presented mine.
I only wish for you that your children remain safe and healthy, and that you are not the source of something that harms another person’s child.
Because I will make one final assumption about you, despite your selfish comment about having no responsibility to the herd. I will assume you love your kids and are not a total asshole.
LikeLike
were’s your data? can you supply credible links? years of research suggests you could be sitting on a plethora of good factual information.
LikeLike
One would assume. Right?
LikeLike
Petra – you reference the CNC website; out of curiosity how current are these stats? I’m unable to locate the page you were on and am interested to see how current this information is as we’ve had so many outbreaks recently. I’d like to see a chart comparing stats from years ago to today.
LikeLike
Taylor,
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/
-Only 1 or 2 out of 1,000 children die from the measles. (That is 0.1%-0.2% of children… Even less than I remember reading before)
-1 out of 10 can get an ear infection (10%) and
-UP TO 1 out of 20 can get pneumonia. (5%),
That page was last updated April 30, 2014.
———————–
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
This article by the CDC explains when there was 100% vaccination rates, there were STILL Measles outbreaks from the 2-10% vaccine failures. Therefore, even if our world was 100% vaccinated, the disease would most likely not disappear! Then there would be people still having negative vaccine reactions and those parents have to suffer seeing their children go through that in HOPES that the diseases will be eradicated, when in fact they probably will never completely disappear- only slightly.
———————–
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/
Another scientific article about Measles outbreaks within the vaccinated community. (with 92% vaccination rates.. More current)
————————
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/04/29/infdis.jit143.full
There has also been studies showing that the antibodies for diseases passed through the mother’s breastmilk last longer from those who had natural immunity, rather than those who had acquired immunity.
————————
Click to access ias1992study.pdf
A New Zealand study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children. (One of the few that were done… The government has NEVER done one themselves.)
————————-
I only pick on the Measles vaccine because it is the most common disease going around Canada and the USA right now.
And as far as comparing studies from years ago to now, I could look later, but I am going to be honest and say that I do not want to waste my time looking for you if you are not going to believe anyways. I will take the time to do my research (Which I already have done lots of) for myself and my family, and those who actually want to know. “You can not teach those who do not want to be taught”.
I do not necessarily care whether people choose to vaccinate or not. I just believe that it should be a choice because either decision means there will be side effects and consequences.
LikeLike
ok. I’ll bite.
I read through two of your links. The first study suggests that there is a 2-10% chance of vaccine failure. And that there is a possibility of waning immunity in about 15% of vaccinated individuals. Yes. Natural immunity is most effective. I still don’t want to get the measles. I still don’t want my children to get the measles. I’ll take a booster, please!
I’m not sure this article supports any argument you are trying to present.
The other one I read was the Oxford Journal. After reading it, I came away with the conclusion that the immunity I have passed on to my infant through acquired immunity lasts for a shorter period of time than from a mother who has natural immunity. Again… more antibodies following actually having the disease makes sense. I would imagine our immune systems have a stronger response to a live virus attacking our system than a dead or deactivated one. Either way, at best, my infant has no immunity to measles by 6 months of age, leaving them exposed when they would have a very difficult time fighting off such a disease. The conclusion of the study implies that we should consider vaccinating infants by 6months of age rather than 12.
I think your links have been ineffective here. Rather, they reinforce the other side as far as I’m concerned.
What side of the argument are you on again?
LikeLike
isn’t that the truth I agree totally with you . especial after reading that 50 years ago they put cancer causing agents into vaccines and 30 million people got it and they just wanted to apologize….now wtf
LikeLike
I met a mom who used to feel the same as you. Then her child got measles and went deaf. She said the agony of watching her vibrant child disappear into a world of silence, slowly stop talking no matter what therapy they provided, struggle with fear and frustration was so intense that if she had it to do over she would vaccinate in a heart beat. I know another mom whose baby girl died of meningitis in bed beside her. She said she will never forgive herself. Look up the pre and post vaccine stats on meningitis. Compare how many people have died from vaccines and how many have died from meningitis. If your child contracts tetanus, polio, or meningitis are you going to be avoiding the chemicals then, or begging the doctors to do whatever they can for your child as their brain swells or their breathing muscles seize? I’ve done tons of research too and my kids are vaccinated. Do more research, you’re not immune for life. My sister got measles twice. Bad things happen no matter what kind of food you eat. You also sound like a brainwashed idiot. Nothing is ever as simple as “eat good food and you’ll be safe”.
LikeLike
I suppose if I had to hire a “Yeah Yeah Girl” to have my back, you would certainly make it to the interview round.
Thank you for your post, and defending me in my brainwashed, idiotic state!
Excellent response.
LikeLike
so, are we suggesting that a cancer patient stop putting chemotherapy poisons into his/her body? and what science are you referring to that vaccines don’t work? maybe you should travel to india where kids have polio (obviously those kids ate too much Mcdonald’s-why else would they have gotten sick, right???) and hey, since when are vaccines toxins?? look at the ingredients, and talk to an immunologist. I certainly hope your child never has to go through what millions are in third world countries are (you know, those people who DON’T have access to FREE vaccines)
LikeLike
I think I might love you. We just had a measles outbreak here in Connecticut and my daughter is too young to be vaccinated yet and I am angry too. Thanks for ranting.
LikeLike
Perhaps we should all rant as loud as the anti vaxxers? I’m personally hoping to get a call to become part of The View so I can rant on live TV about this and other topics I am not an expert on.
LikeLike
As the father of an autistic child, i have to say that I have know Idea why my son has Autism. YOU have no idea why my son has autism. The doctors who made the diagnosis have no idea why my son has autism. Google has no idea why my son has autism. If anyone knew why my son was autistic, autism would be an easy fix. You are a parent, its your job to do your best and love your children, you are in no position to diagnose or treat diseases or disorders.
LikeLike
I’m sorry, was this a post about autism? I don’t think I said anything about it.
Did you vaccinate your child and now think he has autism because of it? Or do you continue to vaccinate despite his diagnosis because the science shows no correlation between the two?
Please elaborate….because I’m trying to understand your position…other than you have a child that you love and who has some developmental challenges.
Also, never tried to treat or diagnose anyone. Not implying I can. Was ranting because I am frustrated with the situation at hand. Because it’s my blog and that’s what it’s for.
LikeLike
First time reader here who A) now loves you, and B) spit macaroni salad on my work computer laughing at the sarcasm you gave to this response. Major outbreak here in Alberta, and it INFURIATES me that people are so damn selfish!
Rant away, I 200% support you on this!!! Goddamn Jenny McCarthy should be shot….
LikeLike
Macaroni salad? You know that is a processed food right? And now you will all die of a communicable disease despite your ineffective vaccinations?
YOu are most welcome here, sister.
LikeLike
I think it is important as a parent to learn to look at things with an open mind. Most people I know that don’t vaccinate think Jenny McCarthy is an idiot and none of them have kids with nut allergies so your totally strange connection to parenting choices and allergies is not valid in any way. I think abusing and bullying parents for their choices is wrong (especially when you are supposed to be setting an example for your children), If your child is immunized, you should not be afraid of kids who aren’t. Right?
LikeLike
Whoa. Nobody is abusing anybody. You made a CHOICE to read my post. Which I stated was my own personal rant posted in my own personal blog.
And since you forgot to read the whole post, one of my children is not old enough to be fully vaccinated yet. I’m pretty sure the parent whose infant died from the measles in Alberta doesn’t give a fuck about your choices. Just like a parent of a peanut allergy wouldn’t give a fuck about your choices if your kid brought pB & j to class and killed their kid.
That’s the point and comparison I was trying g to make.
LikeLike
Your language is abusive and whether you chose social media as your platform or not, it’s still bullying. When someone writes a blog about one of your kids name calling and cursing- I doubt your ideas of abuse would be the same.
My child is vaccinated but I respect human rights. Nobody should be telling other people how to birth, parent, or what they should do with their medical choices.
I find the people ranting on social media about this and resorting to name calling, have generally been very uneducated people. Just drawing a correlation. I have not read all of your blog but when it starts out by you name calling people for their personal choices, I don’t think I am interested.
Your language is ineffective and will just inspire people to lash back. There will be no change with people like you running around as the advocate for herd immunization.
LikeLike
Thank you for immunizing. Honestly.
As for my choice if language, if it offends you, perhaps discontinue reading.
My opinion stands. And I’m hardly an advocate for anything. My blog is my outlet to voice my opinion as I see fit.
LikeLike
This a reply to Petra who must live in a little box on an island on a planet far far away. You think the diseases for which we vaccinate aren’t that bad??? You are obviously not a pediatrician. I am and I have never seen anything as awful as the suffering of a little patient of mine who contracted diphtheria. Her airway simply disintegrated as we stood by helplessly. Her heart muscle did likewise. It’s as if she swallowed a liter of sulfuric acid. Horrible. I could go on about the multitude of complications I’ve treated from that “harmless” little infection called chicken pox. Likewise for whooping cough and meningitis and on and on…
You really should not be trying to convince people not to follow important public health measures when you are so clearly ill informed! These are children we’re talking about here. Did you think of that?
LikeLike
Thank you thank you thank you. I am so glad to have a pediatrician join the discussion.
LikeLike
Caught this from a link in Fbook. Couldn’t agree more. Several of us have the luxury of being born in the first world, and for that I am appreciative. However, I find it absolutely mind boggling that it’s the first world complaining about this vacs. I saw a meme poster recently stating something to the effect (paraphrased) ” Who doesn’t want to get immunised in developing countries? Said No.One.Ever.”
I’ve also been reading quite a bit of commentary now that if you eat healthy, organic foods only, your body will take care of all the diseases/viruses it meets. We’ve turned into a society of anti-science, conspiracy minded idiots. As a 42 year old first time parent of a now 1 yr old, I fear for what he will experience in the years to come.
Keep ranting away…love it.
LikeLike
The internet is a dangerous thing.
Look how fast my ranting post has gone around…. Usually, I write these things for the 50 or so friends that regularly read my bitchy commentaries. And now all this feedback.
I fear for my babes too.
LikeLike
That’s why they call these things “viral” when they get spread around at ridiculous speed to more and more people! I share your frustration at the way this anti-vaccination campaign has grown into a public health threat.
A couple of thoughts… If eating organic whole foods will make our immune systems strong enough to fight these diseases, why did our ancestors who only had organic whole foods to choose from contract these diseases in such epidemic proportions that vaccines were needed in the first place?
If vaccines don’t work, why haven’t there been continual outbreaks of these diseases through the ’70’s and 80’s when most Canadians vaccinated and anti-vac campaigns hadn’t yet started?
Why do people look to actors and Internet lobbyists for health advice and ignore doctors and public health advisors who we are paying with our tax dollars!?
LikeLike
This is one of the most reasonable comments yet. Thanks for joining the discussion, and not calling anybody names 😉
LikeLike
Our anscestors who ate organic food DID catch these diseases, but most got over them. Obviously more died back them because they had poor hand hygiene, and drank contaminated water.
Diseases naturally rise and fall as time goes on.
Also the unvaccinated community really do not follow “celebrities” or “internet lobbyists”… They are usually much more informed about vaccinations and both sides of the story than pro-vaxxers.
My question would be, how many of you have honestly looked at both sides of the debate with an open mindset? My guess is not many. Almost all those against vaccines originally started researching without a bias ahead of time, and after researching for months and months, THEN make their decision accordingly.
There are many doctors, and even neuroscientists, who are against vaccinations! As a doctor, they have been educated in the field, as well as know how to find credible sources. So many anti vaxxers are following those doctors advice, not a random celebrity.
Even on the government websites themselves there is facts showing the truth that most people try and ignore.
Have you guys ever actually fully read the facts sheets on the cdc website? No, the flu vaccine does not always cause autism, and quite honesty it is not that common. However, it says on their website (in small writing albeit), that autism is a possible adverse reaction. So those who are choosing not to vax are just choosing not to risk that. No matter what you say, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE to vaccinate. There is a possibility of people being extremely I’ll or dying EITHER WAY. So why try and force others into taking a chance like that? You rarely see those against vaccines pushing their beliefs on those who choose to vaccinate.
It’s just ridiculous how opinionated and pushy people get about OTHERS choices. Their decision may be affecting you, but your decision is also affecting them.
I truly believe that good hygiene, mixed with exercising regularly and eating healthy, can help boost one’s immune syst to fight off most diseases. God gave us an immune system, so why trust humans who made something before trusting our own bodies?
All in all, it comes down to laziness. Most North Americans sadly are lazy and want to eat the fast food and sit and watch tv. So how can they protect against the diseases? Oh, just vaccinate and then they can be as lazy as they want.
Granted, not everybody is lazy, but many people are. We live in a democratic society for a reason… To make our own choices. If we start forcing our own choices on others, then why don’t we just change to communism?
That’s just my opinion. But then I guess everybody and their dog gets to voice their opinion extremely strong and loud these days… Lol
LikeLike
Sigh. Just…..sigh.
LikeLike
What bothers me about the Internet being used to research vaccines (or anything else) is that you have to be really careful what sources you’re reading, who is paying for it and what possible mistakes, errors and outright lies it may be based on. The internet has made it cheap and easy to publish misleading stories and false information where once published information had to go through several levels of editors, and fact checks before it was made public in printed form. No one is monitoring all these websites for accuracy or truth so it is up to us as good citizens to make informed decisions about what to believe and who to trust.
I live in Canada so I read through the public health agency of Canada recommendations… Which are “vaccines are safe” and “get your kids vaccinated”! I consider the doctors that we pay with our taxes to tell the entire country what to do to stay healthy to be reliable and trustworthy. I also discussed my concerns with my family’s personal physicians and other health care professionals. I have chosen to have most of the vaccines but have decided against some for myself and my family.
It is still a choice to vaccinate or not… Too bad a lot of people making choices to avoid all vaccines may lead to none of us having a choice any longer.
LikeLike
Betty…I’m a doctor and have worked with many other doctors, and I’ve yet to meet one who doesn’t vaccinate both him/herself and his/her children. I would like to know who the “many doctors” are that you speak of, because I certainly haven’t met any of them.
LikeLike
I’m quite certain that it is the consensus of the medical community that vaccination is our best and first defense against communicable disease.
Even more important now after our blatant misuse of antibiotics and all the resistant strains mutating.
Again, nice to have a true expert weigh in on the discussion. Thank you.
LikeLike
First of all “Mayim Bialik”, the “Blossom” and “Big Bang Theory” star is a neuroscientist with a PhD. She is very educated, and has chosen not to vaccinate. (You can look it up online if you do not believe me).
Secondly, here is a link to multiple doctors and those with medical education who are against them.
Click to access VaccineReport-EN.pdf
I by no means am telling anyone that vaccines are bad, but rather trying to advocate for those who choose not to vaccinate. It really is a personal choice no matter what anybody says. There is a reason we need to give “informed consent”. It is considered an “invasive procedure”. Even according to government statistics, not many children die from the diseases or have SEVERE complications.
As a newborn baby, too young to vaccinate, yes the chances of complications are much higher. However, those who just received a vaccination can still shed and transmit some of the virus as much as someone unvaccinated can. The only way to completely protect a newborn baby is isolation, or through breast feeding and the mother having a very strong immune system.
I do not have a strong opinion of what other people do or do not choose for their own health. (It sounds selfish, but it is true). I care about myself, and my immediate family.
As a doctor, if your responsibility is to your patients, I can understand a strong opinion one way or another. However, I also believe that you can not teach those who do not want to be taught.
I think that using the “herd immunity” idea to scare people into vaccinating is disrespectful, selfish, and rude.
I have a cousin who was extremely sick and in the hospital for
Menningitis, but I also have a friend who’s son was vaccine injured. I have seen both sides of the spectrum, and both are terrifying!
In the end, we are taking a chance either way. Nobody purposely makes their choice knowing it will hurt their child. All they do is try to make the best choice they can. We need to stop judging and harassing one another and
just focus on making the right choices for our own families, and only worry about “teaching” those who WANT to be taught.
LikeLike
I’d love to know, of the people posting here, who knows someone that has had an adverse reaction to a vaccine, and who knows someone that has lasting complications from a disease that is now preventable due to a vaccine.
I know at least one person who is deaf thanks to meningitis as a toddler. I don’t know anyone that is dealing with lasting complications due to a vaccine. If we ask our grandparents – who surely ate better than us (I know mine did – self-sufficient farmers) and were more active and had clean water – how many people they know were affected by these now preventable diseases, how many could they list off?
LikeLike
We have become unafraid of the diseases because we haven’t had to see them, for the most part. Because of, you know, VACCINATION programs.
What happened to reason, right?
LikeLike
Thanks for an excellent post… wish I wouldn’t have tortured myself by reading through some of the abject ignorance on display in the comments section. Think I must be a masochist…
LikeLike
what annoys me the most about some people who don’t vaccinate is their belief that there aren’t enough instances of measles to warrant immunization. it’s ironic, anti-vaccers are indirectly responbible for the recent rise in outbreaks. less disease – more vaccinations, more disease – less vaccinations.
ignorance in its purest form.
LikeLike
Hello! I am just reading your blog for the first time, and I appreciate what you have said about vaccines and the measles outbreak. All the comments are interesting and some of them are sad. Either way, I am a nurse, and I am pro-vaccination. Just thought I’d throw my support into the arena that the medical profession is pro-vaccination. Thanks for writing about this!
LikeLike
And thank you for weighing in!
LikeLike
Why don’t all you researchers go back to the dates of when the vaccines were introduced and take a look at statistics and death rates and maybe even some pictures of these diseases that have been wiped out from our economy due to vaccines! You don’t believe they work cause you haven’t seen the outcome of non-vaccinated children!
This information comes from a medical microbiology text book, scholarly addition…
diphtheria – 1-10 will die, in the 1920’s there was 150,000 cases in the US, you do the math! This disease is spread by the infected person for 2-3 weeks.
Hib disease (influenza type b) – leading cause of bacterial meningitis in children less then 5. 1 in 4 suffered permanent brain damage and 1 in 20 died
Pertussis – in 2004 – 25,000 cases were reported. They year before the vaccine came out there were 150,000 cases reported. 1 in 10 will die.
Polio- in 1916 in the US 6000 died and 27,000 were paralyzed. Today there is 0!!!!!!! And there is no treatment !
Tetanus AKA lock jaw – can enter the body from something as small as a pin prick. 1940’s 500 cases a year today 50 cases a year. 1-10 die
This is where I believe people should look for information, does anyone remember what the life expectancy was in the 1900’s and what it is now????? Any thoughts on why that is???? And it’s certainly not because of organically grown fruit and vegetables because they didn’t have the strong chemicals back then!
LikeLike
Yes- When sourcing out information I think it is important to stick to peer reviewed medical literature. It’s very easy to tell real scientific writing from sensationalized writing. True scientific is nothing but statements of facts. There are none to little filler words, because it costs the researcher money to publish. They get straight to the point and descrie methods and results in fine detail. They are also not very easy to read, so if your training or background in the terminology is limited, its easy to misinterpret or not understand at all.
This is part of what makes the internet so dangerous, and why we need to trust our primary care givers to help us understand the science behind current medical practices.
It doesn’t mean a discussion isn’t had, it means we have to trust them to interpret things we don’t understand.
LikeLike
Yes I agree 100% as a primary health care provider I can tell you this information is based on statistics not misinterpreted print found from any source. I think it’s so important that people NOT get information from the internet AT ALL! If you have questions contact a professional for your answers.
The hardest part of a job in the medical profession is watching a mother and father watch their child fight for their lives from something that could have been prevented. Absolutely heart breaking and also maddening.
LikeLike
Most excellent actual factual research! They were saying that Polio is emerging again on the news last night. So glad my family is all immunized and I don’t have to worry every time some kid coughs near us, well aside from colds and flu! But those are actual things that help to build your immune system. No ones immune system gets stronger from the measles!
LikeLike
I completely agree, we live in Alberta where they do not require children to be immunized….oh how can we force someone to do something against their beliefs….really I’m sorry but if you move to MY country or province or where ever and want to send your kids to school with my child Immunize! Don’t want to fine stay at home live in the wilderness stay in your own country….but don’t go anywhere public you can spread these completely preventable diseases!,,,
LikeLike
I don’t just like this, I FUCKING LOVE THIS! Everytime someone goes on about how our bodies can handle the disease I want to go crazy. My son was in the NICU the first 15 days of his life the first 5 he was learning how to breathe. Measles has been terrifying me since it started popping up. Finally declared an outbreak here in edmonton and I called immediately to get my 8mo his early vaccination. I’m furious that because of the neglegance of other people I even had to take that extra step but I’m going to do it so that not only do I protect my son but to protect the other babies we come in contact with. Thank you for writing this!!
LikeLike
Anyone know the long term effects of 3 MMR shots?! No?! But that’s ok…just let your infant >12 months be a guinea pig! New York and other states/provinces are having similar outbreaks…and no early vax recommended. Just Alberta Gov! They make all kinds of excellent, sound and truthful recommendations! And who above said a “massive outbreak in Exmonton?” …7 confirmed cases = Massive? 2000000 in this city and 7 equates a massive outbreak…anyhoooo I digress. Point being…about a year ago Mareck states in the insert literature that quote “safety and effectiveness in infants under 12 months has not been established”…but…insert has been since updated. Thank God for that! Yes Mareck, the same company that was SUED for falsifying the efficacy of the Mumps portion of the MMR vaccine (hate to lose the monopoly on the MMR vaccine!) …hmmm AND links to autism?! An Italian court in 2012 ruled in FAVOR that the MMR DID in fact case autism in a now 9 year old boy. But who’s paying attention to that. Sure, vaccines are fine for some…but not for all! Before you even attempt to attack me…everyone in my household is up to date with vaccinations…but I can sure as hell understand why some parents are leery and choose not to. So, I get this is your blog and you are entitied to your own opinion and all…but being that it’s public domain…don’t be surprised and chastise others for disagreeing with you. If you don’t want people to react to your opinion then perhaps keep your opinion to yourself or confide in your closest girlfriend over a glass of wine. This is Canada….freedom is wonderful until it affects our bottom line!
LikeLike
You are indeed entitled to your opinion and your voice. Which is why I have approved ALL comments regarding my post regardless of whether I agree with them or not. And those reading your comment are entitled to their rebuttal, whatever that may be.
I don’t believe that vaccines carry zero risk. I’ve said this a million times: We greatly overestimate the risk of the vaccines and greatly underestimate the effects of the disease and the risk they pose to us as individuals and as a population. Clearly, you do as well, or you would have not vaccinated your children.
This isn’t a debate about autism, but I will say this: I have read countless statements in other articles made by parents who were convinced that their child’s autism was caused by vaccines. Until they chose not to vaccinate their second child and that child also was diagnosed with ASD. Also, in identical twins, 90% of the time if one twin is autistic, the other will be as well.
This suggests to me that there is a strong genetic component, and some sort of environmental or circumstancial trigger. I don’t know what that is. NO one does. But there are countless studies exploring all the options.
So whatever. Send me some more links about Mayim Bialik and such. I still don’t believe in exposing children to preventable diseases.
By the way, polio is making it’s comeback, thanks to the Taliban refusing to allow polio workers to come in and do their work. Enjoy.
LikeLike
Seriously people? Eat organic and you’ll be fine? Are you screwed in the head? You think all the people that died of polio, measles, TB, etc when they first came around had any damn pesticides on their veggies or hormones in their meat?
Measles is airborne, washing your hands isn’t going to save you or your precious children, the only thing that will save you is to permanently go into seclusion! Which hey, maybe all you morons who think all natural and your immune system will save you can all live together in a big commune and when you eventually all contract diseases and die we can write a history book about stupidity.
I vote my hard earned tax dollars can most certainly go to setting up such a commune for people who think it’s fine to compromise the rest of us!
Thanks, I needed to get that out!
LikeLike
Yeah. Measles being airborne sorta kills any theory that hand sanitzer companies are in conspiracy with the anti vaxxers to make billions of dollars of good hygiene, eh?
Just when I had my next blog topic all lined up….
LikeLike
Why do you people have to resort to calling people “morons” and “idiots” because they disagree with your opinion? More people die in this city each year from drunk drivers and traffic fatalities. Where’s your “you are all fucking idiots!” Blog for that one? Truth is, it’s not the anti vaxer’s causing the problem here…it’s our health authority. Lots of parents refuse to inject their infants/children with 3 live viruses BUT WOULD vaccinate ONE at a time; however, that option isn’t offered anymore because it interferes with their MMR program. So instead of providing options to citizens in terms of vaccinations to reach and accommodate as many people as possible (delayed schedules, modified, etc) they offer a “one size fits all” approach and if you don’t like it…oh well! Too bad! It’s absurd! Canada Chater of Rights and Freedoms declares equity and accomadation for those who need it. Not in this case tho…apparently! Secondly, maybe if our health authority conducted (independent of big pharma) a couple studies or EVEN provided public access to studies that PROVE the vaccine IS safe (no links to autism, etc) instead of just saying “it’s safe cause we say so!” And expecting the masses to climb onboard they may have more success…but goodness no…let’s not waste time or money on reading the fear of out citizens…that’s crazy talk! Let’s use scare tactics instead! Truth is…MMR vaccine CAN cause all the severe side effects that measles CAN case. I personally had a severe reaction to the MMR vaccine. It’s scary business. None of my side effects were listed on the literature handed to me at my appointment….but oh that lovely fine print on the manufacturer insert AND on the cdc website illustrated it quite clearly. It’s good for people to question, research and question some more…and they should be afforded such liberties without being called “morons” or “idiots”. When ppl follow status quo blindly they’re sheep…when they go against the “herd”….they’re idiots. Can’t win.
LikeLike
You’re missing the point entirely, and I’m starting to feel as though your commentary is purely argumentative. I believe quite strongly (and have stated such in my other blogs about vaccinations) that vaccines are not safe for everybody. There are people who have a history of adverse reactions, such as yourself . This is where herd immunity steps in. To protect people such as yourself who should have the choice. The problem is not enough people are vaccination due to fear mongering and bad information. In this province, we are down to a 69% vaccination rate among school age children. Because people are choosing not to vaccinate.
People are making their decisions based on what could happen to the 1%. The comparison I make in my post is how we cater to the 1% in allergy safety as well. The difference is that me not bringing peanut products to school doesn’t therefore put my health in jeapordy, so I am happy to cater to the 1% here. But to say that 1% of people have an adverse reaction to vaccines so let’s not do it? Let’s allow people to create pockets of disease and un-protect that group of people who CANNOT vaccinate? In my opinion ridiculous, and only a decision a fool would make.
As for “where’s your post about fucking idiots and drunk drivers”, well that’s a topic that very well may get a spot for a Hot on The Titties post, but there are many other ones out there for your reading pleasures about all sorts of delightful topics.
LikeLike
And PS: This may satisfy you about traffic tragedies:
LikeLike
For the record, most of the Amish do not vaccinate, and they are a very healthy group of people. Very few diseases (and yes they do still go outside their area and mingle in the “real world” occasional still), and very little autism.
So this “community” you talk about, Joleen, kind of already exists in a way. Sometimes those who don’t vaccinate wish they COULD form a community like so.
Most of us are not saying that vaccines don’t help, but rather that we don’t trust them enough. It is a CHOICE and a RIGHT to decide to vaccinate or not.
The truth is that everybody needs to stop being so downright rude towards other people’a decisions! Maybe live a healthy lifestyle and trust that your body is made to handle these diseases on it’s own most of the time. I’d trust nature WAYYY before I trust man. Science is ALWAYS changing, upgrading, and improving. Heck, they once said smoking was good for you, and now look at what we know it does? Trusting people, no matter what kind of schooling they have, is not always smart. There’s a reason so many people are skeptical. They have a complete right to be so.
LikeLike
Not being argumentative at all. Trying to illustrate both sides…I vaccinate…I’m pissed that people don’t…so now I can’t even take my 4 month old to the grocery store…HOWEVER I don’t use name calling and assume that people who choose not to vaccinate are morons. They may be like me and have a shitty go with some vaccines OR they may be too scared or have other underlying beliefs …whatever the case…they don’t deserve name calling…it’s all fine and good to have an opinion…attacking people for theirs is what I have the problem with. No choices for those that are scared …I have a problem with and using media to scare or pressure the masses…I have a problem with. Not argumentative at all.
LikeLike
Except I think you are misinformed, and obviously haven’t read all the comments on here.
Vaccines REMAIN a choice. Parents do have the choice to spread them out if that’s what they desire or to refuse them all together. In fact, I have opted to wait until my daughter is school age to give the second dose of MMR, rather than doing them a year apart. Our doctor said it can happen anytime between 2 and 5. So we decided to wait….I figured that the immunity didn’t really need a boost immediately, so what’s the rush?
Also, if you read everything presented here, I never called anyone names in my post. I said their choices were poor, ill informed and what not, but it was people responding who resorted to insulting me personally. My favourite was “brainwashed idiot”. It’s the most laughable, because I am the last person to do ANYTHING simply because I am told to. But you don’t know me, so you wouldn’t know that.
And seeing as you don’t like to make assumptions about people or attacking them because of their opinions, please stop doing so here.
If my personal style of writing and bluntness offends you, please.
Just go away. I didn’t tie you up and force you to read or comment here.
And for someone who doesn’t want to argue, yet here you are. Commenting and stirring the pot on one of the most controversial topics out there, and antagonizing the author of a firery conversation-starting piece.
Give.Me.A.Break.
You are next to Jesus in your innocence.
Obviously.
LikeLike
Just wanted to say THANK YOU. Great rant, and I couldn’t agree more. We have a terrible outbreak going on right now. I took my 6month old son to get his MMR booster last week, and there were lots of people there thinking the same way.
On another good note, lots of local public schools are not requiring proof of childs vaccinations in order for them to attend that school. Now I think this is just a temporary measure during the outbreak, however hopefully it will be something that will be done in the future for all schools, all the time.
LikeLike
Just wanted to say that as a mother of a child who was diagnosed with cancer at THREE WEEKS OLD who was undergoing chemotherapy and lost her eye to the disease, we were desperately dependant on herd immunity to keep her safe until she was no longer immunocompromised and I could finally have her vaccinated nearly three years after her initial diagnoses. People who are choosing not to vaccinate their children are coasting on this herd immunity and saying that these diseases aren’t so bad should be forced to experience hospitalization over A COMMON COLD because your baby is neutropenic.
I am sickened over the foolishness and selfishness of this “issue”- because really, it’s a no brainier. If you don’t want to vaccinate your child, switch places with someone in a third world country who would kill to have your vaccinations and you go live in the polio infested countries that don’t have herd immunity.
LikeLike
And how is your sweet babe now? Wishing you all the best!
LikeLike
For those parents who want to do the research look up Dr. Tenpenny who has over 18000 hours on clinical research into vaccines. Also another great one is Dr. Rebecca Carly. In the end do what you think is right. Your child your choice.
LikeLike
Ummm. Ok.
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/carley1.html
LikeLike
Lol yea I’ve seen that. Funny you post the one page and only one that slanders her. Lol Go to her web page. She started speaking out when her own son was damaged by vaccines.
LikeLike
One quick google search produced an entire page of articles about her being mentally unstable.
Sorry, not interested in reading a crazy, discredited persons bullshit.
A for effort though, my dear.
LikeLike
http://www.drcarley.com/bio.htm. This is her bio.
LikeLike
I would like to posit a thought… the adverse side effects of vaccines which do exist, perhaps could be mitigated through a spreading out of the vaccination protocols. My son was vaccinated once a week (well one shot per week) at the recommended times and had zero issues, ie fever, diarrhea, irritability, restlessness.
However, this WAS an inconvenience for me, as I was required to make the time to take him over a 3 week period of each of the vaccination time frames. I also have to go through the discomfort of watching him be upset and cry about the needle more times, however, I felt that it was less tragic for him both from an immunological standpoint (exposing immature immune systems to multiple diseases at one time, perhaps isn’t the best way to achieve successful protection) as well as I could distract him after the shot rather than prepare for him to have another shot.
I’m not saying this in the answer, I’m saying it is another way for parents concerned about the adverse effects to manage those fears. However, it is more time-consuming for the parent.
I find the argument that healthy eating/living is insufficient argument to just about everything. Simply, we can decide what healthy eating is for anyone. What works for one person, may very simply not be healthy for another.
All of this being said, what I recognize most about both arguments is everyone is reacting from a place of fear. And unfortunately, no one in a fearful state makes good, logical, well thought out decisions. I understand the rants, and have had more than a few on the behalf of my 10 month old son, and I strongly support vaccinations. And I hope strongly that people will speak to our elders who remember whooping cough, polio, tetanus, meningitis and why THOSE parents were looking to any way to protect their children. And remember that we are not always smarter than those who came before us and to fail to learn the lessons of the past, is a dire prospect for the future.
Thanks for my two cents. I almost never post, but I appreciate the opportunity.
LikeLike
An amazing, well thought out post, Kate.
I agree. I don’t see a problem in spreading out the vaccinations, as long as everyone (who can) receives them at some point. I’m not sure what the options are specifically other than choosing at what point to do the second MMR, but it is a conversation one should have with their physician. We have chosen to give a little more time between the MMRs because I didn’t see any evidence that immunity would be compromised within 4 years of the initial shot.
My initial post also came from a place of frustration and anger, as well as fear. I have written many posts on this sort of topic, some more reasonably presented than my angry vent here.
Anyway, I like what you said about turning to our elders…..i think we discount their wisdom of experience far too often.
LikeLike
Oh thanks 🙂 I just wanted to say I don’t disagree with you post or ranting or venting… I think all are fair and appropriate, after all this is your blog and others choose to read, react etc. And I think anger that others have for your opinion, quite frankly makes your point about choices and opinions, particularly about the consequences of them.
I always remember the wisdom from my Mom (which by the way, its a bit tongue in cheek as I’ve never appreciated it at the time). “To those which much is given, much is expected.” North Americans have forgotten that for all our rights, freedoms, liberties and protections, we also have responsibilities and obligations. And simply, I don’t want to, is inadequate and insufficient as a reason.
Again, thanks for your blog. I have enjoyed your honest, forthright manner. 🙂
LikeLike
I am feeling quite disapointed. I have always vaccinated my kids, I am vaccinated. Why compare to anaphylactic allergies? My son is severely allergic to treenuts and carries an epipen. Why do you not care about his life but care so much about vaccinations? Sounds to me like you are saying your kid is more important than my kid. Your child should be free to eat whatever he wants at school even if it can cause the hospitalization. and possible death of my child? You are saying it is so important to you that your child can eat trail mix at school even though he has an allergic classmate and is only at school for 30 hours a week. Your child cant refrain from nuts for 6 hours a day? Thanks so much for not caring about my child. So very dissapointed. Nut allergies are real and my son could die infront of his classmates in a matter of 10 minutes just so your kid can eat an almond?
LikeLike
Absolutley NOT the case at all. I am quite familiar with anyphylaxis. I have experienced it myself, in fact.
The comparison I was trying to make is that nut allergies are severe. They are serious and should be taken so. Hence the fat that we all remain peanut free to protect the kids at risk. Nut allergies are a scary reality for you and other parents, but they make up approximately 1% of the student population, yet we consider them because we care.
Likewise, approximately 1% of kids have an adverse reaction to vaccines or are immunocompromised and cannot be vaccinated. Should we not protect those kids that cannot be vaccinated for this reason? Keep allowing unvaccinated kids to go to school and expose those kids to something that can permanently disable them or kill them? Herd immunity only works when we all do it. Now we have kids that are already sick exposed to things like pertussis or measles.
My other point is that the anti vaxxers keep sending me links about how measles only kills 1% of the kids who get it. And my response is: Ok. So the 1% of kids who die from measles are somehow less important than the 1% who can die from an allergic reaction?
Do you understand the comment now?
Your child deserves protection and consideration. I would never wish your child harm, or suggest that those around him should be frivolous.
This is a pretty tongue in cheek post. Pretty inflammatory in fact. I can understand your reaction, but you’ve missed the point!
LikeLike
I think we can all just let the evidence speak for itself.
http://www.upworthy.com/autism-has-increased-like-373-in-14-years-so-here-are-some-things-you-need-to-know-about-vaccines?g=3
LikeLike
Dr. Carley learned how to reverse the damage with homeopathy and other natural supplements, and subsequently realized that inoculations of disease are causing the corruption in the immune system which leads to all autoimmune diseases and cancer
soooo….the root of all evil are vaccinations?
Dr. Carley has developed the Hippocrates Protocol which has successfully reversed all autoimmune diseases (including autism) and cancer in over 2,000 clients (including pets) over the past 9 years.
She cured autism and cancer??She`s a vet too?how amazing! and i bet she works for free,unlike those mean pharmaceutical companies ,because saving lives is more important than money right?RIIIIIGHT!!
Sorry but her “bio” is just further proof she`s a quack.And a quack that takes advantage of desperate people which makes it even worse.
btw how do you cure a disease you have no idea what caused it??
LikeLike
hah. Amen, sister.
LikeLike